| Juest | blast007 ? | 00:23 |
|---|---|---|
| blast007 | ? | 00:23 |
| Juest | sorry to bug you but have you taken a look at the rouge skin bug in the debugger? | 00:23 |
| blast007 | no | 00:24 |
| Juest | aw, you were going to last night but it was late | 00:25 |
| Juest | its okay no pressure | 00:25 |
| Juest | i must be annoying | 00:25 |
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| Agatha | I thought it was the rogue skin, not the red one | 01:37 |
| Juest | sorry Agatha its easy to mix up | 01:49 |
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| blast007 | okay, I think the issue with Rogue is that we're initializing the player object with a skin ID of 0 and a team of Rogue initially, then later setting the skin index and calling changeteam to set the team (which would also load the correct variation of the skin) | 10:00 |
| blast007 | But the constructor has already called changeteam with the skin index of 0, and calling setvisualsteam again doesn't do anything because the team hasn't changed | 10:00 |
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| blast007 | can anyone think of a good reason that a server plugin should be able to pick which skin a player uses? | 12:24 |
| blast007 | And to be clear, it only affects the selection during the player join. | 12:26 |
| SpringTank | Per-Player skin customization. Having server-side control allows it to be more easily moderated, and inappropriate skins can be banned/deleted/blacklisted. If a player wants to upload their own, they can go through the server owner to have it uploaded, and then on joining they would get their skin. | 12:50 |
| SpringTank | Having dynamic skins would be cool as well. Player with top score could have a mark or badge of some sort. Different flags can change the skin of your tank. | 12:51 |
| blast007 | no, I mean just the several presets that we have in 2.5 | 12:59 |
| blast007 | right now, there's a plugin event that can override the player's choice | 12:59 |
| blast007 | but I don't see a good reason for that to exist | 13:00 |
| blast007 | https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag/tree/master/data referring the the alternate tank textures: digital, facet, hex, and solid | 13:14 |
| SpringTank | wait, there's already different texture options? | 13:24 |
| Juest | blast007: all the possible stuff that would it be useful for is best when custom skins are allowed | 13:25 |
| Juest | there's no point if the skins system is not pluggable | 13:25 |
| Juest | customizable | 13:26 |
| Juest | why was the skin system implemented in first place? | 13:26 |
| Juest | SpringTank: that would only be true if the skin system was moddable :) | 13:26 |
| blast007 | again, not talking anything about *custom* skins | 13:32 |
| blast007 | SpringTank: in 2.5 there is, yes | 13:32 |
| blast007 | you can select them when joining a game | 13:32 |
| blast007 | basically I was planning on removing the server event that allowed a plugin to override the player selected skin | 13:33 |
| blast007 | and I want to know if there's a good reason to keep it | 13:33 |
| blast007 | it just seems like a useless function to me | 13:34 |
| Juest | blast007: do you plan to implement custom skins? | 13:56 |
| Juest | it's not useless if there's intent of enforcing skins to denote a clan for instance | 13:57 |
| Juest | for example | 13:57 |
| blast007 | no | 13:58 |
| Juest | then in that case the skin system is useless | 14:00 |
| Juest | why it was added in first place? | 14:01 |
| blast007 | when you say custom, do you mean people loading their own self-created textures? | 14:02 |
| blast007 | if so, why does that make being able to select between several bundled skins useless? | 14:03 |
| Juest | hm okay actually | 14:04 |
| Juest | what i'm saying is: several bundled skins are fine to an extent, enforcement from the server makes more sense if custom skins are in the mix | 14:05 |
| Juest | sorry for the confusion | 14:05 |
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| bzfs-alchemy | Some reasons why a plug-in could change tank skins: A form of rankings (similar to EloStats, but instead of changing the motto, it changes the tank skin.) | 14:11 |
| bzfs-alchemy | Custom game modes may need to make teams a consistent skin, so as to prevent easily identifying players. (Similar to forbidIdentify, forbidHunting) | 14:12 |
| bzfs-alchemy | Tank skins may be used as textures, thus to make certain visual effects work, it may be needed. (A map where tanks can easily blend into the surroundings.) | 14:17 |
| Juest | there we go | 14:17 |
| Juest | i'm not very bright at thinking sometimes | 14:18 |
| bzfs-alchemy | If we can modify them in game, tank skins work really well as designating roles and similar for custom game modes, such as VIP mode and granting the VIP a different appearance. | 14:18 |
| blast007 | who is bzfs-alchemy? | 14:19 |
| Juest | blast007: Zehra from mobile | 14:20 |
| blast007 | k | 14:20 |
| bzfs-alchemy | Yep, also the title of one of my github repos. | 14:22 |
| Juest | Ah nice | 14:22 |
| bzfs-alchemy | https://github.com/Zehra/bzfs-alchemy | 14:22 |
| bzfs-alchemy | Nothing there yet, but I'll doc a lot of my plug-in trickery there in the future | 14:23 |
| bzfs-alchemy | Oh...and one more thing, before i forget... | 14:23 |
| bzfs-alchemy | RegFlag exists, similarly something for tank skins can be given as an example plug-in and to encourage user registration | 14:24 |
| bzfs-alchemy | (You'll unlock more tank skins you're registered:) | 14:25 |
| Juest | i'm still curious why tank skinning is implemented in 2.5 | 14:25 |
| blast007 | Juest: because someone added it | 14:25 |
| bzfs-alchemy | 2.5 is going to be 2.6 | 14:25 |
| Juest | i'm aware that odd numbered are dev versions of the next one | 14:26 |
| Juest | who implemented it and why? | 14:26 |
| Juest | i guess i could go look at commits | 14:27 |
| blast007 | the "why" is "because they wanted to" | 14:28 |
| blast007 | that's how most things get added :P | 14:28 |
| blast007 | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1u5sFsj42tp8tpvYTvGpEbZhylj1MMg3xnz8Nytx2XzM/edit#heading=h.ucjfhksotbq8 "BZFlag 2.6 Changes (as of the end of 2021)" | 14:28 |
| bzfs-alchemy | https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag/pull/133 | 14:30 |
| Juest | huh how long ago was it done? | 14:33 |
| blast007 | 2018 | 14:33 |
| Juest | i saw | 14:34 |
| Juest | cool | 14:34 |
| Juest | what's wrong with high resolution textures? | 14:36 |
| Juest | also, what's up with the texture resolution inconsistency in the skin files? | 14:37 |
| blast007 | cuz we're real big on consistency :) | 14:37 |
| blast007 | our sound files aren't even in a consistent format | 14:37 |
| Juest | have there been no changes since the last update of that doc? | 14:38 |
| Juest | new features implemented for 2.6 that is | 14:38 |
| blast007 | I don't know if much, if anything, has been added since then | 14:38 |
| Juest | do we have the sounds originals? | 14:39 |
| blast007 | no | 14:39 |
| Juest | i could work on the format consistency | 14:39 |
| Juest | aw bummer | 14:39 |
| Juest | where are the sounds from? | 14:39 |
| blast007 | I have no idea | 14:40 |
| blast007 | most of them were there from the initial open-source release | 14:40 |
| blast007 | also, I guess that tank skins PR was where those extra purple base textures are from | 14:41 |
| Juest | should we change the sounds? | 14:41 |
| Juest | oh! | 14:41 |
| blast007 | those two didn't get removed when the high res textures were reverted | 14:41 |
| Juest | that explains it awesome | 14:42 |
| blast007 | https://static.bzexcess.com/videos/bangbang.mp4 | 14:42 |
| Juest | odd that it came from there instead | 14:42 |
| Juest | hm? | 14:43 |
| Juest | random playthrough with different sounds? | 14:43 |
| Juest | on apoc | 14:43 |
| blast007 | yeah :) | 14:43 |
| blast007 | there was some sound pack released with a bunch of sounds, so I had fun putting them in place of BZ sounds | 14:44 |
| Juest | will review later | 14:44 |
| Juest | oh nice | 14:44 |
| Juest | you think it's worth changing the legendary outdated sounds? | 14:44 |
| Juest | which realistically nobody uses | 14:45 |
| blast007 | nobody uses? what? | 14:45 |
| bzfs-alchemy | 90% of all users use them, according to a poll taken yesterday. :p | 14:45 |
| bzfs-alchemy | Of a total of 1 participant. :o | 14:46 |
| Juest | blast007: the game sounds | 14:47 |
| blast007 | Juest: yeah, I know. What do you mean nobody uses them? | 14:47 |
| Juest | as in they put the game in mute | 14:47 |
| blast007 | am I being gaslit? | 14:48 |
| Juest | i feel like the majority plays without sound | 14:48 |
| Juest | am i wrong? | 14:48 |
| blast007 | no, that's not a thing | 14:48 |
| blast007 | do you play without sound? | 14:48 |
| Juest | volume: Off | 14:48 |
| Juest | Sounds volume: Off | 14:49 |
| blast007 | jesus christ, I don't mean that there isn't a way to turn off sound | 14:49 |
| blast007 | I mean the majority of players DO play with sound | 14:49 |
| Juest | okay fair | 14:49 |
| * Juest is obviously clueless about stats | 14:50 | |
| Juest | game stats | 14:50 |
| blast007 | we have pretty good directional audio, so it's useful for finding ST players dropping in behind you | 14:50 |
| blast007 | regarding other sounds, I also played around with some 8-bit sound generator years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbOvmM6H2a0 | 14:52 |
| Juest | wow, how time has passed | 15:01 |
| Juest | apoc looking different | 15:01 |
| Juest | lmao | 15:01 |
| Juest | the sound pack with bzflag is hilarious | 15:02 |
| bzfs-alchemy | I used the 8bit pack for quite a while | 15:06 |
| Juest | nice | 15:09 |
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| Juest | the other one is out of place | 15:09 |
| blast007 | Juest: the other was entirely a joke :P | 15:14 |
| blast007 | I did it because I thought it would be funny, and it was | 15:15 |
| Juest | :D | 15:17 |
| Juest | is there a reasonable replacement we could do? | 15:18 |
| Juest | are you going to keep the legacy? | 15:19 |
| Juest | what if we find very similar sounds or identical but better? | 15:19 |
| blast007 | then maybe | 15:22 |
| blast007 | a main reason for replacing them would be go have very clear copyright and licensing | 15:22 |
| blast007 | some of them I think are really old sound effects that are in the public domain | 15:25 |
| blast007 | I guess if we could track down the source of the ones we already have that'd be great too | 15:25 |
| blast007 | I just don't know how to go about that :) | 15:26 |
| Juest | that'd be great | 15:28 |
| Juest | so we can update the quality and consistency | 15:28 |
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| Agatha | I use the default sounds. I know some folks change them to remove the initial silence / make them more distinctive / whatever, but that feels too cheaty to me. | 19:20 |
| Agatha | Also, that video (above, not the youtube one) is hysterical, even if it demonstrates the slowness of that server and the minusculeness of your screen. | 19:26 |
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| Juest | xd | 20:24 |
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| Optic_Delusion | here's the Star Wars Sounds. http://images.planet-mofo.com/A-Delusion/BZ_build/. I'd love to tell you who the original author was, but I do not know. ( ILM ) I believe it's was created in 2004, posted on the forum but then removed for copyright. In 2004 Lucas was very harsh on copy, but in 2023 it's a whole new world. | 21:51 |
| Optic_Delusion | Also a few files in theree... we had PlayHistoryTracker playing sounds for a little while, but that went the way of the dodo. | 21:54 |
| Optic_Delusion | a fair amount of garbage in there, but the sounds you need are good | 21:56 |
| Juest | wow | 22:10 |
| Juest | possible support for sound packs? | 22:10 |
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| Optic_Delusion | it's easy to do, just save a copy of your original sounds, then dfrop in your new sounds with the same names | 23:47 |
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