| Juest | so basically, bzfs customization and all that jazz is done via cli and configuration file then | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Zehra | yes | 00:00 |
| Juest | kind of annoying | 00:00 |
| Juest | wish for a gui | 00:01 |
| Zehra | BZFS is basically initialize with options... and that's it... besides server settings and some plug-ins. | 00:01 |
| Zehra | There is a GUI...in some of the other repos. | 00:01 |
| Zehra | Also some players made a GUI for it, and there is at least 4-5 total, IIRC. | 00:02 |
| Zehra | Actually, now that I think of it...it's over 8 GUIs if you include the web stuff. | 00:08 |
| Juest | they're difficult to come by, i think | 00:09 |
| Juest | but i havent really tried to search for one honestly | 00:09 |
| Zehra | probably a lot of stuff is outdated though | 00:11 |
| Zehra | like 2.x servers and below | 00:11 |
| Juest | :/ | 00:14 |
| Juest | blast007: still here? | 01:23 |
| Juest | how about fixing a edge case where it doesnt recognize that the failed world is deleted and the download can be retried? | 01:24 |
| blast007 | I briefly looked into that | 01:27 |
| blast007 | I think the issue was the the client still had the file handle open so it couldn't delete it, or something like that | 01:28 |
| blast007 | and it wasn't a normal file handle, so I couldn't just close it. It was some sort of stream. | 01:28 |
| Juest | weird | 01:40 |
| Juest | this is in 2.4, not sure about master | 01:40 |
| Juest | is it fixable? | 01:41 |
| Juest | any idea about arrows not working for the menus at the bottom of the screen when im in keyboard input mode? | 01:44 |
| blast007 | you mean the O menu? | 01:44 |
| Juest | server command, send to recipient/nemesis/pm menus yeah | 01:45 |
| Juest | i cant change who im messaging to or cycle through the server command options | 01:46 |
| blast007 | yeah, that's just how the logic is set up | 01:46 |
| blast007 | in keyboard mode, it takes priority for movement | 01:46 |
| Juest | it creates a condition where no movement happens and you cant cycle through | 01:47 |
| blast007 | oh, you can't move either? so it doesn't have *any* effect? | 01:47 |
| Juest | correct | 01:48 |
| blast007 | weird | 01:48 |
| Juest | nevermind | 01:48 |
| Juest | i can move | 01:48 |
| Juest | so i have to unbind this? | 01:48 |
| blast007 | oh, okay, so that's what I expected that | 01:48 |
| Juest | to make it work | 01:48 |
| blast007 | then* | 01:48 |
| Juest | sometimes it lets movement sometimes it doesnt | 01:48 |
| Juest | thats the odd thing | 01:49 |
| blast007 | it's probably a bug regardless | 01:49 |
| Juest | for instance with the server command open i cant press the respawn key | 01:49 |
| Juest | when i am on send to recipient | 01:49 |
| Juest | i cant move and i cant change the recipient | 01:49 |
| Juest | now i can because it switched to mouse movement | 01:49 |
| Juest | all i can do is move the cursor between letters but i cant switch recipients or go through previous sent messages | 01:50 |
| Juest | so it has its quirks | 01:51 |
| Zehra | uhhhh, that is somewhat normal, I think. | 01:51 |
| Zehra | imagine trying to type in any word with 'i' and respawning. | 01:52 |
| Juest | if iam on keyboard mode and i open either server commands or send to recipient i cant move and i cant cycle through | 01:53 |
| Zehra | I remember keyboards not really working for the message interface, if on keyboard mode. (the irony.) | 01:53 |
| Juest | its really annoying | 01:53 |
| Juest | .... | 01:54 |
| Zehra | This should have some bypass or fix for it. | 01:55 |
| blast007 | the bypass is to hit escape :P | 01:56 |
| Juest | of course | 01:56 |
| Juest | but a fix? | 01:56 |
| Juest | you're not that helpful Zehra | 01:56 |
| blast007 | remove the chat box and menu | 01:56 |
| * blast007 ducks | 01:56 | |
| Zehra | lol | 01:56 |
| Zehra | Juest, if I was, we'd see a battlezone remake. :P | 01:57 |
| Juest | oh come on | 01:57 |
| Zehra | or worst, bzflag chess edition :P | 01:57 |
| Juest | also why the tabs system was created? | 01:57 |
| Juest | for chat | 01:57 |
| Juest | i outright disable it (classic mode) | 01:57 |
| blast007 | the chat tabs feature was one of the first things I ever added to the game, back in like 2003 or 2004 | 01:58 |
| blast007 | Again, you're asking why a feature is in BZFlag. Same answer as always. Because someone added it. | 01:59 |
| Zehra | I'd be worried if we'd vote in and vote out features by polls. :O | 02:00 |
| Zehra | "CTF removed because too many caps. -CTF protest" :P | 02:01 |
| blast007 | I had chat tabs in my alternate client called BZFlag XL back in the day | 02:02 |
| blast007 | then I contributed that feature to the normal game | 02:02 |
| Juest | im curious about the behind the scenes of it, i know of "because someone added it" | 02:03 |
| blast007 | I thought it was a good idea, so I made it | 02:03 |
| Juest | so, anything that can be done about the keyboard input conflict with the send to recipient/server commands? | 02:05 |
| blast007 | I think the first three contributions I made were keeping the Visual C++ 6.0 project files up to date, adding chat tabs, and fixing the Windows controller force feedback (which had issues because it generated an effect every time instead of using the existing matching effect) | 02:05 |
| blast007 | without a code change? switch to a different input device | 02:06 |
| blast007 | with a code change? fix the order in which it processes input | 02:06 |
| Juest | that sounds like it, not sure how... | 02:06 |
| blast007 | make it act like when in the menu | 02:06 |
| blast007 | the normal menus, I mean | 02:06 |
| Juest | yeah that would be acceptable | 02:06 |
| Juest | but also might cause weird behavior | 02:07 |
| Juest | somehow you can still play the game when in menus | 02:07 |
| blast007 | in 2.5 I plan to make it impossible to move with in the menu when using ANY input method | 02:07 |
| Juest | and sometimes im locked out of the mouse/keyboard input switch :( | 02:07 |
| blast007 | and no, when in keyboard mode, you can NOT move while in the menu | 02:07 |
| Juest | good | 02:07 |
| blast007 | and tab doesn't jump either - I think it moves the menu to the next item | 02:07 |
| Juest | like the old select button | 02:08 |
| Juest | yes thanks, that should solve part of the problem of unwanted movement when in the menus or in the background | 02:09 |
| Juest | the other part is a way to disable background input | 02:09 |
| blast007 | minimize the game | 02:09 |
| Juest | but i want to leave it on screen for things like eyeballing chat | 02:10 |
| Juest | while in the background | 02:10 |
| Juest | or i want to watch the game on the side | 02:10 |
| blast007 | then shouldn't you be in observer mode? | 02:11 |
| Juest | i am in observer mode | 02:12 |
| Juest | and input sort of can happen in the background | 02:12 |
| blast007 | so what input are you referring to? | 02:12 |
| blast007 | in observer mode, nothing should be happening as far as input unless you're clicking on the window | 02:13 |
| blast007 | (when not focused on the window, I mean) | 02:13 |
| Juest | right | 02:13 |
| Juest | thats the only case where there's no background input for some reason | 02:14 |
| Juest | what if you want to idle spawned :) | 02:14 |
| blast007 | what does that mean? | 02:14 |
| Juest | because you're waiting for something specific to happen for example | 02:14 |
| Juest | not being in observer mode | 02:14 |
| blast007 | for me, on Linux, the only time it sees input when in the background is when I move the mouse over the window | 02:16 |
| blast007 | (and if another window is in front of it, it doesn't pass the input to BZFlag) | 02:16 |
| Juest | thats pretty much the only problem yeah | 02:16 |
| Juest | mouse getting picked up as input when in the background | 02:16 |
| blast007 | when you move the mouse OVER THE WINDOW? | 02:17 |
| Juest | i *think* i saw keyboard input happening when in the background but i might be dreaming | 02:17 |
| Juest | yes over the window | 02:17 |
| Juest | accidentally and such | 02:17 |
| blast007 | that's how most software works | 02:17 |
| * Juest sighs | 02:17 | |
| blast007 | right now, I have Firefox in the background and my Gnome Terminal is focused | 02:17 |
| Juest | it could be a little smarter about it yaknow? | 02:17 |
| blast007 | if I hover over elements on Firefox, it responds to that hover action | 02:18 |
| blast007 | this is pretty common window event behavior | 02:19 |
| blast007 | Discord, Firefox, Gnome's Klondike game. All of them respond to the mouse movement when they're in the background. | 02:21 |
| Zehra | Is there a way to check if a team flag has landed instead of in flight? (Such as not held by players, but dropped over a pyra.) | 03:04 |
| Zehra | Same as the flight "lifetime". | 03:05 |
| Zehra | I am experimenting with having team flags remain on the field, even if no players of said team are on it. | 03:05 |
| Zehra | BZSoccer, Capture the Bacon are game modes which would retain good use of this mechanic. | 03:06 |
| Zehra | Some sample of what works: team[GreenTeam].team.size = 1; But "fixTeamCount();" is what resets the modified team values...which resets team flags. | 03:08 |
| Zehra | I know of the usage of a server mod would be rather trivial, but I'm looking for a means via plug-ins, for easier distribution. | 03:08 |
| Juest | verified with linux bzfs, jitter on windows 2.5 is high | 03:12 |
| Juest | the linux machine runs on a i3 6100u and it has 99 fps | 03:13 |
| Juest | and has got a 20ms jitter | 03:14 |
| Juest | artix linux | 03:14 |
| Juest | where in 2.4 in the same environment i get 2ms of jitter | 03:17 |
| Juest | from the other computer | 03:29 |
| Juest | any idea why the clouds in 2.4 seem to have a line going through it, showing the texture edges? | 03:34 |
| Agatha | Zehra: *I* would play bzflag chess edition . . . | 03:35 |
| Zehra | Agatha: I'll write the mode and create the map. How about for new year we play a chess match? | 03:37 |
| Zehra | And anyone who wants to join in the BZFlag chess edition.. join in for the fun! | 03:38 |
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| Agatha | I mean, I'm down. I assumed you were being at least somewhat metaphorical, though—something about effortposting pages and pages on the f̶o̶r̶a̶ 𝙚𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙧 imploring people to play strategically, or at least conscientiously. | 03:41 |
| Zehra | I'm for both options, the current game play has been too predictable has gotten boring. | 03:44 |
| Zehra | I find major fault of sub optimal scoring systems a part to blame, as none wishes to play modes which punish them, even if they are playable. | 03:45 |
| Zehra | a.k.a. HTF scoring, KeepAway, Koth..etc rabidRabbit, RabbitTimer...etc | 03:45 |
| Zehra | I have high hopes for BZ in 2024, but it may simply be futility. | 03:49 |
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| Agatha | In a recent, unanticipated experiment, I play phenomenally if I stay up until 5 am. Like 84~2 phenomenally. I'm not sure it goes to show anything, but maybe it goes to show that the current gameplay works best when less brainpower is involved. | 03:56 |
| Agatha | I guess I've given up moralizing about it. No one (else) cares or is going to change, and complaining is annoying. It's its own thing, I think—take it or leave it. And sometimes I'm even in the right mood. | 03:56 |
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| Juest | wow, very interesting Agatha | 15:18 |
| Juest | that must mean you're nocturnal :P | 15:18 |
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| * Agatha (Narrator: she actually usually goes to sleep around 10–11pm) | 15:48 | |
| Juest | heh | 17:37 |
| Juest | well wake up early? | 17:37 |
| Agatha | The point is to be half-asleep; the idea here is that competitive bzflag *requires* you to be operating mostly on automatic | 17:41 |
| Juest | ohhh | 17:44 |
| Juest | that's interesting | 17:44 |
| Agatha | Like, the main way I personally would improve is to have faster reaction time. But, like, past a certain point, that's just something you're born with—whereas my reaction time is rather poor, and made worse by a sub-par net connection. However, getting all the thinking possible out of the way, making dodging "automatic" as it were, makes that as fast as it can be, significantly improving my ability . . . which happens when I'm dead tired, apparently :) | 17:44 |
| Juest | nice | 17:45 |
| Juest | i'm bored | 17:45 |
| Juest | on my way to psychologist | 17:45 |
| Juest | a little late i think | 17:45 |
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| blast007 | operating mostly on automatic? so like... autopilot? :) | 18:29 |
| Agatha | Hey man I know many players where just hitting Auto would increase their elo | 18:33 |
| the_map | Agatha: have you considered moving 6-7 time zones west? then 5am is 10-11pm | 19:03 |
| Juest | lol | 19:17 |
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| Agatha | I did that, actually, but then they had to fish me out of the Pacific Ocean. To this day, it's why I drive a tank, not a boat. | 19:29 |
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