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| *** Sean[m] is now known as sean[m] | 19:42 | |
| sean[m] | <JeffM[m] "it's a horrible thing :)"> Aua, no love for IRC? C'mon now. libircforever | 19:49 |
|---|---|---|
| JeffM[m] | heh, that protocol gave me nightmares | 19:50 |
| JeffM[m] | How have you been? | 19:51 |
| sean[m] | Peachy, I guess. It's been crazy. Lots going on. Miss days of just coding on a swear word filters ... and logging. | 19:53 |
| JeffM[m] | heh | 19:53 |
| sean[m] | I still cringe at the libIRC reference when I did that BZFlag interview and couldn't understand that's what he was saying with his accent. | 19:54 |
| sean[m] | by the way, looks like the plumbing is almost done for libera bridging on Matrix, so it can be joined in too | 19:55 |
| JeffM[m] | how much of freenode is leaving? | 19:56 |
| sean[m] | hard to say at this point. I know a half dozen of the largest channels like #ubuntu, ##linux and such are reportedly leaving wholesale. | 19:56 |
| sean[m] | if I had to guess, they'll be lucky to get 50% just because of inertia, confusion, apathy | 19:57 |
| JeffM[m] | I wonder if any server host sponsors are going to jump ship | 19:58 |
| sean[m] | so fragmenting for the open source community in general, but then matrix makes it less of an issue. if anything it'll probably push a lot of groups to move IRC, set up matrix, and then effectively become matrix users | 19:58 |
| blast007 | CentOS, Haskell, Gentoo, OpenSCAD, the IRCv3 Working Group, and Wikimedia all moved to Libera | 19:59 |
| blast007 | KDE is in discussion about moving somewhere else | 19:59 |
| sean[m] | Freso (staffer and musicbrainz guy) tells me his communities are moving too, they're pretty big. Valorie (KDE) says they're almost certainly moving too. | 20:02 |
| sean[m] | It's all rather disappointing from my perspective. All this disruption that could have likely been avoided/mediated/discussed/fought via avenues through outside assistance. I don't think tmult and other staff realized the sheer amount of resourcing they had at their disposal to approach and resolve this differently. | 20:06 |
| JeffM[m] | seems like everyone had a bit of anger/frustration on both sides | 20:07 |
| sean[m] | Yeah, I read their personal pages and IRC logs for hours last week trying to understand and it's a bit perplexing. More questions than answers, lots of bad geek decisions, lots of veiled accusations. IRC drama. | 20:08 |
| JeffM[m] | workplace drama is one thing I do not miss :) | 20:09 |
| sean[m] | I'm sure it's more complex, and I'd hope it'd come down to more than ads on the website and k-line op status ... but so far the crux seems to be arrogance in comms and a perceived power struggle. A struggle that didn't even appear to be realized in some tangible form yet. Sheesh. | 20:14 |
| JeffM[m] | yeah, it does seem like Andrew does like to keep saying what he owns. | 20:15 |
| sean[m] | What he thinks he owns, that much wasn't even proven -- they just didn't think they had the resources to fight his assertion (which is asinine if they really believe that). | 20:16 |
| JeffM[m] | I am curious what was 'sold' in that contract they say he has | 20:17 |
| sean[m] | Yeah, my gist is he legally probably got the rights to DNS, maybe trademark. Maybe to a server or two. Questionable to the "service", definitely not all the volunteered servers. | 20:19 |
| JeffM[m] | was there a foundation or corp? | 20:21 |
| sean[m] | My understanding is that there was the pdpc which was a corp, that was dissolved, and then there was later a Freenode company (don't recall the exact name) that was set up for running conferences and/or training | 20:23 |
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| sean[m] | that conference company, an llc I think, was sold to Lee. unclear what assets that included or if the sale itself was even legal. | 20:23 |
| sean[m] | I e-mailed Christel, but probably not the best time to have a chat... | 20:24 |
| blast007 | the company is "freenode limited" | 20:25 |
| sean[m] | What's curious is that sale would have also occurred while she was employed by Lee, if I'm not mistaken, so there's quite a conflict of interest there. | 20:25 |
| blast007 | https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/10308021/officers | 20:25 |
| tupone | gentoo had a meeting and move to libera | 20:26 |
| JeffM[m] | yeah, that's a bit of a 'oooof' move | 20:26 |
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| blast007 | "When I asked Andrew about the current state of the freenode domain, one of his associates who I hadn’t spoken to in months ... came out of nowhere and started offering me bribes of staff privileges and money for Alpine." | 20:28 |
| blast007 | https://ariadne.space/2021/05/20/the-whole-freenode-kerfluffle/ | 20:28 |
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| sean[m] | Like I said, that raises so many more questions than answers. It also makes several claims that there is no evidence of. | 20:30 |
| sean[m] | Ariadne claims Lee has "operational control and legal authority over the freenode domains" and I've not seen evidence of at least both of those. More than likely, christel has access to the DNS records and she gave him the password on godaddy or wherever it's registered. Nothing formal. Freenode Limited has/had zero assets when it started. | 20:32 |
| sean[m] | That whole post is based on a speculated association and *nothing* actually happened. So someone tried to bribe them. Maybe even lied to them. That never happens on IRC. But I'm left with a huge "BFD" because the staffers still could have requested formal mediation, or called in an SFLC lawyer, or made a public call for a legal fund, or to simply told Lee to go pound sand -- see what dorking with DNS will get him. | 20:40 |
| sean[m] | I mean, I'm not defending this guy. I have no idea who he is, have no basis to trust him, and sounds like he's got a pretty crummy personality really. But just because he had financial capacity to issue a threat seems to have sent the staffs scurrying. Hard to say if he actually had any ground whatsoever to stand on. | 20:43 |
| JeffM[m] | it will be interesting to see how it all falls out. | 20:43 |
| sean[m] | Yeah, maybe :) | 20:43 |
| JeffM[m] | I get the feeling that's how he's used to operating, threads and bullying | 20:43 |
| JeffM[m] | * I get the feeling that's how he's used to operating, threats and bullying | 20:44 |
| sean[m] | Well both seem to have huge ego's. This was an insightful read from someone that seemed very impartial: https://gist.github.com/prawnsalad/4ca20da6c2295ddb06c1646791c61953 | 20:57 |
| sean[m] | "The ego, willing to have freenode destroyed because he wanted to "win" an argument over DNS access that was a silly miscommunication to start with." | 20:58 |
| sean[m] | "Both sides had valid points, both sides extremely bad at communicating, both sides unable to work together." | 20:58 |
| JeffM[m] | oof | 21:17 |
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