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| blast007 | "California law banning bots from pretending to be real people without disclosure" don't worry everyone, we're good: https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag/blob/2.4/src/bzflag/playing.cxx#L1891 | 13:21 |
|---|---|---|
| allejo | hah | 14:01 |
| Dracos85 | LOL......And just how do they expect to enforce it? | 14:04 |
| blast007 | if you ask a robot cop if they're a robot cop, they have to tell you. it's totally the law! | 14:11 |
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| Flash | Siri, what time is it? | 17:17 |
| Flash | I am a non-humanoid artificial intelligence, and it is 12 o'clock | 17:17 |
| tupone | Flash: ar you satisfied by the answer? The math is now more intellegible? | 17:25 |
| Flash | you could have done nothing and I would have been satisfied. | 17:26 |
| Flash | you notice I marked it approved | 17:26 |
| tupone | yes, I did | 17:27 |
| tupone | For something I did not get it, so I left you to change test and commit there, before, if someone want, putting in the main repository | 17:28 |
| Flash | I've been on the phone the past two days, so I may have missed something | 17:30 |
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| Flash | you mentioned astyle ... are we using it now? | 17:40 |
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| tupone | yes | 17:57 |
| tupone | DEVINFO | 17:57 |
| Flash | where are the project settings? there should be a .astylerc somwhere | 17:57 |
| tupone | in DEVINFO there is the command line | 17:57 |
| Flash | ugh ... yeah, there's no good way to enforce style application | 17:58 |
| Flash | I made it a build target on my program | 17:58 |
| Flash | is there any analogous tool to apt/yum/brew for windows? | 18:37 |
| blast007 | for build dependencies, or just installing software? | 18:38 |
| Flash | mostly for installing | 18:39 |
| blast007 | https://chocolatey.org/ | 18:39 |
| Flash | is it widely used? | 18:39 |
| blast007 | dunno | 18:39 |
| blast007 | there's an (outdated) BZFlag package on there, though | 18:40 |
| Flash | I know for my Mac, I stumbled around with multiple ways of installing source projects, but homebrew seems to now be up to par with yum | 18:40 |
| Flash | it would be a lot easier for folks to be told "install these packages" (or even cooler, we could do it ourselves with a bzflag-dev package) | 18:41 |
| Flash | but I don't know anything about windows packaging | 18:41 |
| Flash | nor do I want to | 18:41 |
| blast007 | for mac there's 'brew cask install bzflag' | 18:41 |
| Flash | so that's all you need to start developing? | 18:41 |
| Flash | or an executable? | 18:41 |
| blast007 | that's for the binaries | 18:42 |
| Flash | do you know who created/maintains it? | 18:42 |
| blast007 | https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-cask/commits/master/Casks/bzflag.rb | 18:43 |
| blast007 | (I think allejo does PRs to update that file) | 18:43 |
| Flash | allejo is my hero | 18:44 |
| blast007 | example: https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-cask/pull/53996 | 18:44 |
| blast007 | he also maintains the flatpak/snap repos, afaik | 18:45 |
| Flash | we keep making new tools faster than I can learn them | 18:46 |
| allejo | :) | 18:46 |
| blast007 | I was pondering a launcher for BZFlag this morning. Something that would manage multiple versions of the game (or at least major versions) and would handle updates. | 18:47 |
| blast007 | And would abstract the whole 'how to install the package' part of it, deciding to use flatpak, snap, appimage, etc. | 18:47 |
| Flash | cross-platform? | 18:47 |
| blast007 | yeah | 18:47 |
| Flash | what language would you use? | 18:48 |
| Flash | (don't say PHP) | 18:48 |
| blast007 | http://gtk.php.net/ | 18:48 |
| * blast007 ducks | 18:48 | |
| Flash | I'm sure this doesn't work anymore but... | 18:48 |
| blast007 | nah, my thought would be something like Python, though isn't Apple killing that off? | 18:48 |
| Flash | ~bzfrag blast007 | 18:49 |
| * infobot tries to kill blast007 but gets blown away by skill | 18:49 | |
| Flash | oh bother | 18:49 |
| blast007 | yay, my override for the bzfrag still works :) | 18:49 |
| Flash | lol | 18:49 |
| Flash | Apple can't kill Python ... all the machine learning tools are written in it | 18:50 |
| blast007 | https://developer.apple.com/documentation/macos_release_notes/macos_catalina_10_15_beta_3_release_notes#3318257 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20109469 | 18:50 |
| Flash | just a packaging issue. "we don't want to take responsibility for the security of scripts" | 18:52 |
| Flash | funny, though, since bash is almost as dangerous | 18:52 |
| allejo | they’re moving away from bash to zsh in Catalina iirc | 18:52 |
| Flash | harder to do network stuff | 18:52 |
| Flash | leaving GNU? | 18:52 |
| Flash | hey allejo, was it you or someone else who was working on a new prebuild system? | 18:53 |
| allejo | that's macsforme | 19:01 |
| allejo | https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208050 | 19:04 |
| Flash | in my past life using Sun, I was a tcsh guy, but found zsh a superior scripting environment to sh. bash and zsh are so close (I think they might be the same executable on modern Solaris) | 19:19 |
| Flash | looks like the bigger news is Apple is moving away from Intel | 19:27 |
| tupone | to me the vertex shader for the "normal view" seems ok. My branch GL2.0 | 21:21 |
| tupone | if some want to test ... | 21:21 |
| tupone | kthxbye | 21:21 |
| Flash | so I've never actually run directly from XCode ... is that possible? | 21:47 |
| Flash | Unknown option -NSDocumentRevisionsDebugMode. | 21:48 |
| blast007 | you have to manually fix that in the project settings | 21:50 |
| blast007 | https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag/blob/2.4/README.MacOSX#L104-L109 | 21:50 |
| blast007 | I suppose a really silly hack would be an ifdef'ed bit of code for macos that accepts that argument and just ignore it instead of throwing an error | 21:51 |
| blast007 | ignores* | 21:51 |
| Flash | might not be too silly of a hack | 21:51 |
| blast007 | silly in the sense that it's required because of a dumb thing that xcode does | 21:53 |
| macsforme | good idea, actually | 22:10 |
| Flash | it's great that all this is documented, but darned annoying to have to read umpteen files to build a silly open source game | 22:10 |
| blast007 | Flash: it's documented on the website too | 22:11 |
| blast007 | https://www.bzflag.org/documentation/developer/compiling/macos/ | 22:11 |
| Flash | you are further making my point | 22:11 |
| blast007 | :) | 22:11 |
| blast007 | that does cover *all* of it though | 22:12 |
| blast007 | even working around the -NSDocumentRevisionDebugMode thing | 22:12 |
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| MarisaG52 | Hi, I need a key for my new bz server | 22:15 |
| MarisaG52 | Link seems to be down.... | 22:15 |
| blast007 | send me (blast) a message on the forums requesting a key and include the hostname for the server | 22:16 |
| MarisaG52 | Thanks! Will do it right now... | 22:16 |
| Flash | hey, there is/was a file someplace called CONTRIBUTING.md ... I can't find it. Did I make it up? | 22:18 |
| MarisaG52 | ok just PMed you a message blast007[m] | 22:22 |
| blast007 | k | 22:24 |
| Flash | to the mac wizards, should I have been able to build in XCode without running autogen.sh? | 22:40 |
| macsforme | yes | 22:41 |
| Flash | it didn't work | 22:41 |
| macsforme | what error? | 22:41 |
| Flash | two things. missing BZFlag-Info.plist and missing config.h | 22:43 |
| Flash | there are no .plist files in a fresh install, unless I did something incredibly odd | 22:43 |
| macsforme | BZFlag-Info.plist is automatically generated by the "Pre-Build Script" target | 22:44 |
| Flash | hmmm. I can try again | 22:44 |
| macsforme | sometimes there are issues when you run ./configure and it creates include/config.h, when there is already Xcode/config.h... so I wouldn't mix gnu make and Xcode in the same source directory | 22:45 |
| macsforme | someone also reported issues using xcodebuild from the command line (with a fresh clone), but I'm not aware of any problems building from the Xcode GUI | 22:48 |
| Flash | ok. I got confused because there were red icons (errors) when I opened the project. Looks like the build steps do clear that all up | 22:50 |
| Flash | dang, allejo... you are a busy beaver | 22:56 |
| macsforme | huh... well now I'm seeing an error about a missing BZFlag-Info.plist as well... on the second build attempt, it goes away | 22:56 |
| allejo | Flash, why's that? | 22:56 |
| Flash | you have commits everywhere I look | 22:57 |
| Flash | homebrew, the other package managers, now I see stakx ... | 22:57 |
| allejo | to be fair, stakx is my own creation but yea. i try to contribute places :D | 22:58 |
| Flash | should my built web site look right if I just browse the files, or do they need to be hosted? | 23:02 |
| allejo | for bzflag.org? needs to be hosted, or you could do `stakx serve` and have stakx start a web server (that currently has a few bugs) | 23:03 |
| Flash | so I tried this: https://github.com/stakx-io/stakx#download-a-release and I can build my website, but that doesn't leave me with a "stakx" command? | 23:05 |
| Flash | or I skipped something? | 23:06 |
| allejo | if you want the `stakx` command, just toss that executable in /usr/local/bin or somewhere in your $PATH | 23:07 |
| allejo | or just do `./stakx` from wherever that executable is | 23:07 |
| Flash | what put an executable in /usr/local/bin? | 23:07 |
| Flash | all I have is a .phar file | 23:07 |
| allejo | ah | 23:08 |
| allejo | a .phar is a PHP executable, you can remove the extension and just rename it to `stakx` | 23:08 |
| Flash | oh. it told me to do this : php ./stakx.phar build | 23:09 |
| allejo | up to you with how/where you want stakx | 23:09 |
| allejo | guess i could clear that up in the readme a tad bit more | 23:10 |
| Flash | looking at the .phar, it appears to expect /bin/stakx ? | 23:11 |
| Flash | require 'phar://' . __FILE__ . '/bin/stakx'; | 23:11 |
| allejo | yea, that's the internals for the program; i.e. it mirrors the structure in the git repo. bin/stakx is the main entry point for the program | 23:13 |
| Flash | are you concerned about redundant developer information buried in the bowels of the web site and things at the top-level of our source repo? | 23:16 |
| allejo | personally, i'm ok with it. i'd prefer the site version to be a bit more lightweight and the one in the repo to be more technical if needed | 23:24 |
| allejo | but that's just me | 23:25 |
| Flash | does the deployment target really matter, except for the "official" build? | 23:25 |
| allejo | no clue, to be honest. i don't think i ever really change my settings | 23:26 |
| BZNotify | bzflag.org: jwmelto opened pull request #31 "offer a homebrew alternative" (https://git.io/fj6bS) | 23:34 |
| BZNotify | bzflag.org: jwmelto review_requested pull request #31 | 23:34 |
| BZNotify | bzflag.org: jwmelto review_requested pull request #31 | 23:34 |
| Flash | I'm wondering if we need to update our version philosophy ... the world seems to be going to the "live at head" mindset | 23:34 |
| Flash | in truth, the only way to truly support older machines/OS/architectures is to have machines to test/run on. | 23:36 |
| * blast007 looks over at the collection of hardware in the corner of the room | 23:36 | |
| * Flash sees a volunteer | 23:37 | |
| macsforme | blast007: are the instructions for working around -NSDocumentRevisionsDebugMode actually shown on the web site? I didn't read it on the page you linked, and a grep of the bzflag.org repository is showing nothing | 23:37 |
| allejo | ^ | 23:37 |
| Flash | yes, it is | 23:37 |
| blast007 | "Go to the Product menu, then to Scheme, and click on Edit Scheme. Under the Options tab, uncheck "Allow debugging when using document Versions Browser"." | 23:37 |
| allejo | oh TIL | 23:38 |
| blast007 | Flash: that's what I use that hardware for | 23:38 |
| macsforme | okay, wrong grep... thanks | 23:38 |
| blast007 | I have a bunch of drives and graphics cards, and slot loading SATA hard drive bays on a couple cases so I can swap out operating systems quickly | 23:39 |
| Flash | any reason why extra command-line arguments should be errors in the first place? | 23:46 |
| allejo | in what context? | 23:47 |
| Flash | -NSDocumentRevisionsDebugMode | 23:48 |
| blast007 | most software I use treats unknown arguments are an error | 23:48 |
| blast007 | silently ignoring typos isn't a good thing | 23:48 |
| BZNotify | bzflag: macsforme opened pull request #202 "Ignore the -NSDocumentRevisionsDebugMode option added by Xcode" (https://git.io/fj6NJ) | 23:52 |
| BZNotify | bzflag: macsforme review_requested pull request #202 | 23:52 |
| BZNotify | bzflag: macsforme review_requested pull request #202 | 23:52 |
| Flash | in github, how do you update your fork to be in sync with the upstream? | 23:56 |
| allejo | https://help.github.com/en/articles/syncing-a-fork | 23:57 |
| allejo | ~fork | 23:57 |
| infobot | spoon! | 23:57 |
| allejo | ... | 23:57 |
| Flash | in other words, you can't | 23:57 |
| Flash | you have to do it from the command line and push up to your fork | 23:58 |
| Flash | on github | 23:58 |
| allejo | ah yea, no way to do it in the browser afaik | 23:59 |
| blast007 | https://www.bzflag.org/documentation/developer/contributing/ documented here too | 23:59 |
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