| *** Flash_ <Flash_!~Flash@user/flash> has joined #bzflag | 03:32 | |
| *** Flash <Flash!~Flash@user/flash> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | 03:33 | |
| *** Flash_ is now known as Flash | 03:34 | |
| *** Sgeo <Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | 07:29 | |
| *** bboles <bboles!~bboles@64.94.212.195> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) | 09:46 | |
| *** bboles <bboles!~bboles@64.94.212.195> has joined #bzflag | 09:46 | |
| *** bboles <bboles!~bboles@64.94.212.195> has quit IRC (Client Quit) | 09:50 | |
| *** bboles <bboles!~bboles@64.94.212.195> has joined #bzflag | 09:50 | |
| *** Sgeo <Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo> has joined #bzflag | 13:48 | |
| *** Agatha <Agatha!~agatha@user/agatha> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | 19:01 | |
| *** Agatha <Agatha!~agatha@50.38.40.200> has joined #bzflag | 19:04 | |
| *** bboles <bboles!~bboles@64.94.212.195> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) | 19:58 | |
| *** bboles <bboles!~bboles@64.94.212.195> has joined #bzflag | 20:00 | |
| Agatha | Bzflag is based on GL 2.1, yes? This is holding back a lot of cleanup (and features), yes? | 21:58 |
|---|---|---|
| Agatha | Serious question: is there value in maintaining 2.1? According to what I'm reading (hard to find good references, but nice summary commentary here: https://www.reddit.com/r/opengl/comments/sseddz/what_is_the_most_widely_adopted_opengl_version/ ), moving to e.g. GL 3.3 should affect approximately (perhaps literally) nobody. | 21:58 |
| Agatha | Even stuff like software pipes and virtual machines are on 3.3 these days. | 21:58 |
| SpringTank | I think the main problem is there are GL calls all through the code that have to be hunted down and fixed before moving on... | 21:59 |
| SpringTank | it's a tangled mess. | 22:00 |
| SpringTank | and a lot of the rendering pipeline is still very much CPU based | 22:00 |
| Agatha | I guess the main reason to stay with 2.1 is integrated GPUs? | 22:21 |
| Agatha | Demanding GL 3.3 basically says you need a computer from newer than about 2010/2011. Whereas, for discrete GPUs, it's more like 2006/2007. | 22:21 |
| Agatha | I know people on bz are a different breed than normal gamer folks, but are they really running decade-old computers? Quite possibly, I guess :V | 22:21 |
| SpringTank | a different breed indeed. (no offense) | 22:33 |
| SpringTank | some players outright refuse to play any other games. | 22:33 |
| Agatha | or are excluded from them :/ | 22:51 |
| SpringTank | lmao | 23:14 |
| blast007 | Agatha: BZFlag is still OpenGL 1.5 | 23:21 |
| blast007 | there might be the start of some 2.1 stuff in 2.6, but I can't recall if that was merged or was just in a branch that tupone was working on | 23:21 |
| Agatha | :S For reference, that means that you're trying to support hardware circa 2001. | 23:24 |
| blast007 | it's not that we're trying to, it's just that we haven't rewritten our entire graphics stack to use shaders | 23:25 |
| blast007 | using 2.1 was considered as we could mix older GL and gradually migrate to shaders | 23:26 |
| blast007 | 3.2 was considered as well | 23:27 |
| blast007 | there are some generations of macs that we might(?) want to support that may only go up to 3.2 | 23:27 |
| blast007 | https://gist.github.com/blast007/917f72b59fac372fb2f09cd2f555b94f | 23:27 |
| blast007 | the apple doc only lists the GPU, so I'm not sure without research which systems that would reflect | 23:28 |
| blast007 | oh, actually it looks like macOS older than 10.9 was the first to support GL 3.3 (or 4.1 on some GPUs), and we had, until recently, still been support 10.7 | 23:30 |
| blast007 | supporting* | 23:30 |
| blast007 | so I guess at this point, there's no difference in hardware support that I can tell between GL 3.2 and 3.3 | 23:33 |
| blast007 | it looks like macOS 10.9 was the first* | 23:40 |
| Agatha | wowee that is a nice collection of resources! | 23:51 |
| Agatha | Regarding GL 3.2 vs. 3.3, I think 3.3 is supported basically everywhere 3.2 is; the difference in support in basically down to software; it's understandable some vendors lagged behind a bit implementing 3.2 -> 3.3, but that debacle shook out about a decade ago, so . . . | 23:51 |
| * Agatha shrugs | 23:51 | |
| Agatha | Another point to consider: if for some reason someone desperately wanted to run a new release of a backward-incompatible bzflag on a (decade-)old computer, there's always the software rendering fallback to consider: especially on Linux, software pipes universally seem to get you to at least 3.3, if not 4.0 and beyond. | 23:51 |
| blast007 | I don't care at all about software rendering | 23:53 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.3.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!